Evan Newmark, writing on one of the Wall St. Journal’s blogs on Friday, three days before Monday's vote on the $700 billlion bailout plan:
The public still doesn’t connect their lives to the crisis. But it should.
Because no bailout bill means that:
By the close of the stock market on Monday, the value of Main Street’s IRAs, 401Ks and pension plans will be worth a lot less than on Friday. How much? Hard to say, but a loss of 20% isn’t crazy.
By week’s end, there is a good chance that a raft of large banks will be taken over by federal regulators.
Within two weeks, as the banks hoard cash, the credit lines on most of Main Street’s credit cards will be reduced, foreclosure proceedings accelerated and car-leasing programs suspended.
Within a month, Main Street won’t be able to buy a home, a car or a tractor unless paid for in cash. As the credit markets shutdown, the mortgage, auto and small-business loan markets will nearly disappear. And the economy will grind to a near halt.
Far fetched? Not at all. It is the absence of credit–not too much of it–that causes great economic depressions.
The Dow-Jones average actually lost just under 7% on Monday, falling to 10365.45. It turns out that expecting a 20% decline was a bit crazy. At this moment on Tuesday it has recovered almost half of that, up 3.3% to 10710.56.
We’ll keep watching to see whether the other dire predictions fare any better.
One can oppose the bailout, by the way, and still favor the Fed using open-market operations to prevent a decline in the money stock and thereby to support the volume of bank credit. It was the steep decline in M2 [in a banking system made artificially fragile by government intervention] in 1929-33 that, as Friedman and Schwartz explained, helped turn the recession of 1929 into the opening phase of the Great Depression. It was not the decline in the number of banks. Socializing and losses and perpetuating bad investments by propping up insolvent institutions – the foolish mission of the Hoover-FDR Reconstruction Finance Corporation – did not help recovery. Almost certainly it hindered it.
By the way, too much credit in the 1920s was a chief cause of the intitial downturn: it sowed the seeds for it by distorting interest rates and thereby fostering the malinvestments that came to grief.
Welcome to Oaksterdam University, a new trade school where "higher education" takes on a whole new meaning.
The school prepares people for jobs in California's thriving medical marijuana industry.
For $200 and the cost of two required textbooks, students learn how to cultivate and cook with cannabis, study which strains of pot are best for certain ailments, and are instructed in the legalities of a business that is against the law in the eyes of the federal government.
The only prerequisite for the course is a Politics/Legal Issues 101 class.
In a microcosm of the national vote, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports (and illustrates in a "hell freezes over"-themed cartoon) the fact that those voting "NO" on the bailout included both the left-wing Rep. William Lacy Clay (D-Inner City St. Louis) and the right-wing Rep. Todd Akin (R-Well-to-do Suburbs).
TV's talking heads last night were baffled by the failure of the bailout. They blamed it on a "failure of leadership" to ram the measure through. (Or, if they noticed that the mail to Congress was running 30-1 against the bailout, they blamed a failure of politicians to "educate" the public, who obviously didn't understand the gravity of the situation.)
It's pretty simple, really. Republicans who voted no didn't like the fact that $700 billion would be taken from taxpayers. (A few, encouragingly, talked about defending free-market principles.) Democrats who voted no didn't like the fact that it would be going to Wall Street.
During an email exchange with a friend, I suggested that it would be great if Congress were to invoke Psalm 139:6--"Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it"--when asked how they are going to fix the minute details of the current financial mess, and it would be great if they applied this to policy-making in general. I then sent him a Hayekian adaptation of the serenity prayer:
"God, please grant me the ability to learn the things I don't know, the serenity to accept that there are things I can't know, and the wisdom to know the difference."
By now we've probably all seen a lot of punditry laying the blame for the current financial mess on unfettered capitalism and deregulation (Obama returned to this point a few times during the debate on Friday night). Steven Horwitz offers a brilliant "Open Letter to (his) Friends on the Left" making the case that free markets aren't to blame. His letter should be read and distributed widely.
... says Bill Clinton in an interview with Maria Bartiromo. Self serving? Without a doubt. But mighty interesting, too, because of all the talk that deregulation or lack of regulation is the root cause of the current financial turmoil. Some snips:
MARIA BARTIROMO
Mr. President, in 1999 you signed a bill essentially rolling back Glass-Steagall and deregulating banking. In light of what has gone on, do you regret that decision?
FORMER PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON
No, because it wasn't a complete deregulation at all. We still have heavy regulations and insurance on bank deposits, requirements on banks for capital and for disclosure. I thought at the time that it might lead to more stable investments and a reduced pressure on Wall Street to produce quarterly profits that were always bigger than the previous quarter. But I have really thought about this a lot. I don't see that signing that bill had anything to do with the current crisis. Indeed, one of the things that has helped stabilize the current situation as much as it has is the purchase of Merrill Lynch (MER) by Bank of America (BAC), which was much smoother than it would have been if I hadn't signed that bill.
[Bartiromo:] Phil Gramm, who was then the head of the Senate Banking Committee and until recently a close economic adviser of Senator McCain, was a fierce proponent of banking deregulation. Did he sell you a bill of goods?
[Clinton:] Not on this bill I don't think he did. You know, Phil Gramm and I disagreed on a lot of things, but he can't possibly be wrong about everything. On the Glass-Steagall thing, like I said, if you could demonstrate to me that it was a mistake, I'd be glad to look at the evidence. But I can't blame [the Republicans]. This wasn't something they forced me into. I really believed that given the level of oversight of banks and their ability to have more patient capital, if you made it possible for [commercial banks] to go into the investment banking business as Continental European investment banks could always do, that it might give us a more stable source of long-term investment.
"I've got three different technologies that could wipe out the species," said Friedman, a self-professed libertarian who is certain that neither politics nor central planning will avert a possible bad technological outcome.
"I am much more worried about the government making the wrong response and doing damage than I am about the government not protecting me," said Friedman, adding: "It's a mistake to think of the world as if there was somebody in charge. There's never been anybody in charge."
I was talking about this puzzle with George Selgin, and he suggested I raise it here. Can anyone explain to us Ben Bernanke's theory according to which taxpayer-financed asset purchases can help a troubled asset market get unstuck, i. e. regain its previously high volume? Is that based on any known theory of markets, or any known historical experience? The purchases are supposed to help the market in "price discovery," via some cleverly designed mechanism (as yet unspecified). Bernanke swears it isn't about overpaying for assets to subsidize the institutions selling the troubled assets, only about finding the market a price. But in that case, why would anything close to $700 billions of purchases be needed?
Tenants of a Brooklyn building say their landlord came up with a new idea for how to kick them out: Let the smell of the cats out of the bag. Dead cats, that is.
The stench from the carcasses did catch the tenants' attention -- but they stayed and sued.
One tenant, Daisy Terry, told a City Hall news conference on Sunday it was so bad she had to hold her nose coming down the stairs.
Terry says the landlord used the dead cats to try to push out rent-stabilized tenants.
Source. Maybe PETA should come out against rent control. HT: Drudge
If you have a student who might be interested in presenting, the deadline for Grove City College's Austrian Student Scholar's Conference is fast approaching (October 1st). DOL friends Ed Stringham and Bob Higgs will be keynote speakers. More information can be found here and the announcement is below the fold.
Grove City College will host the Austrian Student Scholars Conference, October 31 - November 1, 2008. Open to undergraduates and graduate students in any academic discipline, the ASSC will bring together students from colleges and universities across the country to present their own research papers written in the tradition of the great Austrian School intellectuals such as Ludwig von Mises, F.A. Hayek, Murray Rothbard, and Hans Sennholz. Accepted papers will be presented in a regular conference format (see the schedule below) to an audience of students and faculty. Keynote lectures will be delivered by Drs. Robert Higgs and Edward Stringham.
Cash prizes of $1,000, $750, and $500 will be awarded for the top three papers, respectively, as judged by a select panel of Grove City College faculty. Hotel accommodations will be provided to all students who travel to the ASSC to present their papers. Limited stipends are available for travel expenses. Students should submit their proposals to present a paper to the director of the conference (jmherbener@gcc.edu) by October 1. To be eligible for the cash prizes, finished papers should be submitted to the director by October 15.
In 1956, J. Howard Pew hired Hans Sennholz, the young protégé of the Dean of Austrian economists Ludwig von Mises, to head the economics department at Grove City College. Under his direction, Grove City College became the world’s leading undergraduate institution for the study of Austrian economics. At commencement in 1957, GCC awarded an honorary doctorate degree to Mises. Five years after Mises died in 1973, his widow, Margit von Mises, was asked by their friend, Hans Sennholz, to make GCC permanent home to his papers. Since 1978, the 20,000 page Mises Archive at GCC has already been the source of four books of his previously unpublished manuscripts.
The Sept. 29, 1908 NYT reports on academic eligibility at Yale:
The chances are slim for Arthur Brides, Yale's all-around football star, wearing a uniform this season. Brides was to-day definitely notified that he cannot join the eleven unless he removes the deficiencies in his studies. There is little chance that Brides can fill the demand, but he will pluckily try to do so before the big games. He will not report with the team for weeks, and the football coaches say that they regard him as out of the competition.
Fairly impressive, although it is Yale after all, that before the NCAA promulgated rules concerning academic eligibility, at least one case of enforcement of standards could be found. Likely this is the problem: the fact that Brides's story was such big news indicates that such academic enforcement wasn't that common and thus, eventually, the NCAA will enact its own rules.
Excellent summary of the problems with the various assertions that free markets and deregulation, coupled with greed, caused the recent financial problems. Good use of a quote from Larry White.
Below the fold: the transcript of the live chat that occurred at www.commercialappeal.com earlier this evening (posted for my econ 101 students, who have a homework assignment based on the debate due on Tuesday). UPDATE: Apparently, I was only able to copy and paste the first 40 minutes of the chat. The rest is available here: http://www.commercialappeal.com/debatechat/.
7:43
Commercial Appeal: Hi all. Welcome to The Commercial Appeal's live online chat! We're going to be watching the Presidential debate in Oxford and discussing.
7:45
[Comment From Nrogara]
Hi all
7:45
[Comment From Babs]
Hey
7:45
[Comment From Guest]
Vote Nader! There’s something fishy when both candidates exclude third parties from the debate. It’s as if the Dems and Republicans have rigged a system in which they alternate as President every 8 years.
7:45
[Comment From Andre]
Good evening
7:45
Commercial Appeal: Welcome
7:46
Commercial Appeal: Good question, guest. Not sure. But that's a question for another day, I think.
7:47
[Comment From Guest]
Why is Ralph Nader excluded from the debates? He’s the only candidate against this communist move to send 700,000,000,000 tax payer dollars to corporate fat cats who are destroying the economy. What is going on? Are these debates rigged or something? Nader’s at 5% in the national polls. That’s impressive considering he’s been ignored by the wall street owned media.
7:47
[Comment From Guest]
Hello, Michael here
7:47
[Comment From Stop]
Chat should never have sound
7:47
[Comment From Michael]
Hello,
7:47
[Comment From Kesha Williams]
Good evening everyone
7:48
Commercial Appeal: hi michael, hi kesha.
7:48
Commercial Appeal: 11 minutes on the countdown
7:48
[Comment From Stop]
Ralph Nader is a joke.
7:48
Commercial Appeal: let's leave ralph nader for another discussion.
7:48
[Comment From Kareem]
Hello everybody
7:49
Commercial Appeal: any early predictions on who will do well?
7:49
[Comment From Kesha Williams]
I say put in Prince Mongo... LOL
7:49
[Comment From Michael]
I didn't know that Nader was polling at 5% nationally. Where did you read this?
7:49
[Comment From LaTasha]
Hello everyone!
7:50
[Comment From Michael]
Obama will do much better than McCain with all but die hard McCain fans.
7:50
[Comment From Wayne]
Evening all...
7:50
[Comment From Nrogara]
Obama has an early advantage cause He can call out McCain on what he did just 48 hrs ago
7:50
[Comment From Kesha Williams]
I think both will do well. If Obama doesn't studder and McCain keeps his cool.
7:51
Commercial Appeal: what's everyone watching on? i have msnbc on
7:51
[Comment From Babs]
We all know that Obama has a talent for public speaking.
7:51
[Comment From Kareem]
CNN
7:52
[Comment From Babs]
WJCL
7:52
[Comment From B-Rob]
CNN here
7:52
[Comment From Wayne]
I am viewing on Channel 5
7:52
[Comment From Michael]
McCain is not to good under the gun. He did better than Obama at Ric Warren's event because o0f the nature of the questions and the lack of follow up questions.
7:52
[Comment From LaTasha]
channel 5 here
7:52
[Comment From Nader for The People]
Nader is polling at 5-7% in several natl polls
7:52
[Comment From Kesha Williams]
NBC
7:53
[Comment From Babs]
I think they both agreed on a freestyle debate tonight, right?
7:53
[Comment From Michael]
I'm watching on channel 5
7:53
Commercial Appeal: jim lehrer will be in charge, as usual. we'll see what style it takes. been an interesting couple of days leading up to this.
7:53
[Comment From Nader for The People]
the questions are prechosen
7:54
[Comment From doc1]
let's get ready to rumble
7:54
Commercial Appeal: LOL at doc1. we should have michael buffer announce.
7:54
[Comment From vera]
good evening!
7:54
Commercial Appeal: hi vera
7:55
[Comment From LaTasha]
is there some lag on here?
7:55
Commercial Appeal: i have to approve the comments, but i'll be setting it up for the folks i've been working with so that stops. shouldn't be a problem
7:55
[Comment From Kesha Williams]
yes there is
7:55
[Comment From doc1]
it will be an interesting evening, lets be civilized and have a good debate
7:55
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
Good evening, everyone. Gary Robinson, are you here?
7:56
Commercial Appeal: hi Michael Huggins. i am
7:56
[Comment From Babs]
The lag's probably from them screening us.
7:56
[Comment From LaTasha]
oh, i see... i thought it was my system!
7:56
[Comment From Guest]
Cnn
7:56
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
Am I logged in correctly to do what I need to do?
7:56
[Comment From Kesha Williams]
Everyone remember the golden rule, pls
7:56
Commercial Appeal: Michael, you're just fine.
7:56
[Comment From Art Carden]
Greetings, everyone. In addition to the debate between McCain and Obama, Libertarian candidate Bob Barr will be responding to debate questions at http://www.mogulus.com/reason, and Green Party candidate Cynthia McKinney will be responding at www.bloggingthedebates.com. Does anyone know if Nader or any of the other candidates are responding in real time anywhere?
7:56
[Comment From doc1]
Gary, will you be involved in the debate or would u be just moderating
7:56
[Comment From Sarah]
how does this work
7:57
Commercial Appeal: Doc, most of my time will be just keeping up.
7:57
[Comment From vera]
I hope that this is a group for tangible and realistic discussion and not attacks! Are there ground rules Gary?
7:57
Commercial Appeal: Sarah, you just type your thoughts.
7:57
[Comment From Nrogara]
Sarah this works kinda like a chat room
7:57
Commercial Appeal: exactly, vera, thanks!!
7:57
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
Out of curiosity, is anyone else logged in to MySpace.com/MyDebates to watch this online?
7:57
[Comment From Stop]
who is the moderator?
7:58
Commercial Appeal: Stop, i am the moderator. i'm Gary Robinson, online news editor at the CA.
7:58
[Comment From doc1]
we all r
7:58
[Comment From Michael]
Ladies and gentlemen, standing 6' 3'' tall, weighing 200 lbs, wearing the dark suit and red tie, from Chicago, Barrrrrrrack OOOOOOObamaaaa
7:58
[Comment From Aaron]
I'll try and keep up here, but am working over on Twitter during the debate
7:58
[Comment From doc1]
it is time fasten your seat belts ya'll, it will be a ride to remember
7:59
Commercial Appeal: OK folks, like vera says, let's have a great, sane, decent discussion about what comes up during the debate.
7:59
[Comment From Patricia]
Hello everyone!
7:59
[Comment From Michael]
And his opponnent.....
7:59
[Comment From Nrogara]
I'm watching this on cnn.com live and they're gettin ready
7:59
[Comment From 6burkes]
hello
7:59
[Comment From LaTasha]
let's do this man!
7:59
[Comment From Sarah]
talking about Memphis on CNN
7:59
[Comment From Nader for The People]
Nader has many people blogging, and will be on Bill Maher after the debate and will release online answers to all the q's right after the debate
7:59
[Comment From Shelton]
hello
8:00
[Comment From Frank]
Hello Everyone.
8:00
[Comment From Michael]
Sane and decent? Remember we're talking about politics!
8:00
[Comment From Aaron]
Who is playing the Debate shot game? Take a shot if McCain says "My Friends", Obama says "Change", Lehrer says "Senator, Two Minutes". HAVE FUN!!!
8:00
[Comment From Dawn S.]
Hi everyone
8:00
[Comment From Guest]
Hello from Corinth. MS
8:00
[Comment From GObama!]
Hey all
8:00
[Comment From TLH728]
Hi
8:00
Commercial Appeal: the debate shot game? LOL oh terrific.
8:01
[Comment From doc1]
everybody remember we r here to have a discussion so please be civilized and bring up good points lets c if we can solve our problems right here!!!
8:01
[Comment From TLH728]
I am ready!
8:01
[Comment From Dawn S.]
Here we go!
8:01
[Comment From vera]
Michael, even in politics there are exceptions:)
8:01
[Comment From doc1]
Gary r u ready?
8:01
Commercial Appeal: i sure hope so, doc!
8:01
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
Jim Lehrer just said "You all." Being in the South must be getting to him!
8:01
[Comment From Nrogara]
Doc u ready??
8:01
[Comment From Jabril]
Well it's that time. Stand up Oxford.
8:01
[Comment From LaTasha]
Aaron that sounds very dangerous. You may risk alcohol poisoning.
8:01
[Comment From marcina1127]
hello everyone
8:02
[Comment From doc1]
cnn has a great set up
8:02
[Comment From JYoungest1]
woo how many people are in here
8:02
[Comment From Aaron]
Watching on CSPAN2, so no talking heads, just the debate
8:02
[Comment From doc1]
they have score cards for each candidates
8:02
[Comment From Dawn S.]
yeah, i'm on cnn too.
8:02
[Comment From LaTasha]
what's up with cnn's scorecard?
8:02
Commercial Appeal: a lot of folks here already
8:02
[Comment From doc1]
it will be fun to c the scores
8:02
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
Direct exchanges between the candidates are permitted. This should be interesting.
8:02
[Comment From Kesha Williams]
whew! I am tired already.
8:03
[Comment From TLH728]
Because this is a very important debate
8:03
[Comment From Aaron]
Lehrer is DA MAN!
8:03
[Comment From JYoungest1]
Is CNN the only one broadcasting this
8:03
[Comment From LaTasha]
applause!
8:03
[Comment From Nrogara]
no
8:03
[Comment From JYoungest1]
online at least
8:03
[Comment From Kareem]
CNN has perception meters to from a group of registered ohio voters at the bottom that are holding little devices that they use to rate what the candidates are saying realtime
8:03
[Comment From doc1]
all channels are
8:03
[Comment From 6burkes]
not only cnn, its all over the tv
8:03
[Comment From Guest]
MSNBC is too
8:04
[Comment From JYoungest1]
i mean online wise
8:04
[Comment From doc1]
stright to economy
8:04
[Comment From Jabril]
Good Question
8:04
[Comment From Sarah]
stop thanking , start talking
8:04
[Comment From Nrogara]
I believe thanks is in order
8:04
[Comment From Michael]
Don't waste too much time with thanks
8:04
[Comment From LaTasha]
someone mentioned myspace
8:04
[Comment From TLH728]
I hope Obama does not give a speech
8:04
[Comment From 6burkes]
answer the question already
8:04
[Comment From Diane]
Hi everyone - good luck to each candidate!
8:04
[Comment From doc1]
he is right we r struggling
8:04
[Comment From Nrogara]
look how Obama is looking right at the camera as if he is talking to the people
8:04
[Comment From Jabril]
You greet your audience first. Comparative talking one on one.
8:04
[Comment From Michael]
Good relate it to the individuals
8:05
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
He's taking too much time "setting the stage," for an allocation of only 2 minutes.
8:05
[Comment From Kesha Williams]
New comers go back and read the house rules
8:05
[Comment From vera]
keep i
8:05
[Comment From TLH728]
I am glad he is giving a plan
8:05
[Comment From vera]
keep
8:05
[Comment From Stewart]
Isn't two mns. up yet?!
8:05
[Comment From Dawn S.]
i like how he's numerating his remarks
8:05
[Comment From Aaron]
He is going point by point
8:05
[Comment From doc1]
yey for te tax prayers
8:05
[Comment From Sarah]
nope..
8:05
[Comment From Diane]
Who's for McCain in here who's for Obama?
8:05
[Comment From Sarah]
that man is my hero
8:05
[Comment From 6burkes]
those are thery points, what is he going to actually do
8:05
[Comment From Stewart]
mccain
8:05
[Comment From Nader for The People]
there are more choices
8:05
[Comment From TLH728]
shot number 1
8:06
[Comment From JYoungest1]
wow Diane what a crazy question
8:06
[Comment From vera]
keep in mind Obama is a constitutional lawyer and accustomed to make presentations, not suggesting that McCain cannot. He did well at Saddlecreek, in my opinion.
8:06
[Comment From doc1]
good last [unch with bringin bush oin
8:06
[Comment From TLH728]
I am for Obama
8:06
[Comment From Dawn S.]
it's a lot to consider...this bailout thing. hard for anyone to really 'get it'
8:06
[Comment From Michael]
I for the truth. End the lies and the rest will take care of itself!
8:06
[Comment From Nrogara]
Oh my name it is nothin and my age means les
8:06
[Comment From TLH728]
oh gosh
8:06
[Comment From Jabril]
Shouldn't matter who you are for right now. Learn their policies and views
8:06
[Comment From Kareem]
there are only two realistic choices, otherwise i would vote for Barr or Ron Paul
8:06
[Comment From Aaron]
Good opening for Obama
8:06
[Comment From doc1]
can he talk any faster
8:06
[Comment From LaTasha]
mccain is wasting time...
8:06
[Comment From vera]
I think that we should be bi-partisan on this blog and discuss the tangible aspect of the debate and not whose bandwagon we're on, don't you agree!
8:06
[Comment From Sarah]
awww.. hes fewing a wittle better tonight
8:06
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
McCain's mention of Kennedy is gracious, but he sounds sad and tired. Obama, by contrast, sounds determined and energetic.
8:06
[Comment From Frank]
I'm pro-Obama; but I'm hoping that he will stick with the issues and not attack McCain as he just did. Taking a strong position on the issues will suffice given the gravity of the issues.
8:07
[Comment From 6burkes]
they both are wasting time
8:07
[Comment From Nrogara]
McCain is looking at Leher and the people at the building notice the change between the two already
8:07
[Comment From Sarah]
McCain is exhausted
8:07
[Comment From Rob]
Their answers sound so prepared
8:07
[Comment From Stewart]
I disagree, Jabril.... most Americans are decided... and the debates do nothing but solidify their decisions.
8:07
[Comment From TLH728]
Yea Mccain you have been around a while
8:07
[Comment From Sarah]
poor old man.
8:07
[Comment From doc1]
mccain hasn't used "my friends" once yet
8:07
[Comment From Patricia]
With each candidate presentation means a lot, Certainly Obama leads in that category
8:07
[Comment From vera]
It's easy to watch on TV and become critical. If we were in their shoes things would be different.
8:07
[Comment From LaTasha]
i agree frank
8:07
[Comment From Nader for The People]
please stop saying we have to fix it and tell us how you will
8:07
[Comment From Dawn S.]
mccain seems faltering a little
8:08
[Comment From JYoungest1]
Since main stream media all the debates have been fake as the canidates
8:08
[Comment From matt]
There is no transparency or oversight in Paulson's package. What's McCain talking about?
8:08
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
McCain is doing well in that he sounds like your wise and experienced uncle who has been around the block a few times. Obama, by contrast, sounded a little "theoretical," as someone noted earlier.
8:08
[Comment From 6burkes]
anyone truly undecided at this point is just not that interested
8:08
[Comment From Diane]
Jabril, I've already learned their policies and views haven't you? Just wanted to know who's for who already. I agree with Sarah.
8:08
[Comment From julie cee]
sorry I am late...major tech diffs
8:08
[Comment From Kareem]
my friends is irritating
8:08
[Comment From Jabril]
If anyone is decided before they even know what will happen before the election, they are not savvy voters
8:08
[Comment From Patricia]
Telling the truth is not really attacking another candidate it is the truth
8:08
[Comment From Stewart]
All Obama is, is theoretical.
8:08
[Comment From waqe]
I suspect even if mccain does well tonight, the vice-pres debate will reverse any gains made here.
8:08
[Comment From julie cee]
Neither Senator looks more tired than the other....focus on what matters, please
8:08
[Comment From Todd]
NOW he's for oversight...lol
8:08
[Comment From vera]
what does oil have to do with the recovery plan mentioned by mccain
8:08
[Comment From Lin]
Hi all
8:08
[Comment From Michael]
McCain meander too much and sounded weak.
8:08
[Comment From doc1]
hoe did oil from forgin came about about the plan
8:09
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
McCain sounds as though he has been up all night, with his sleeves rolled up, working on this crisis. That buys sympathy. Obama needs to achieve a decisive tone that convinces hearers that he is the one to solve the problem.
8:09
[Comment From TLH728]
Oh gosh mccain start talking about what your plan is
8:09
[Comment From Art Carden]
Style points: Obama looks better than McCain after the first question. Here's an interesting question: what were the changes in incentives that produced the crisis?
8:09
[Comment From Frank]
I'm glad Lehrer didn't let them "off the hook."
8:09
[Comment From Sarah]
I agree. I'm very excited about seeing Palin fail.
8:09
[Comment From TLH728]
what is the plan
8:09
[Comment From Patricia]
I agree with that wage
8:09
[Comment From 6burkes]
obama asks himself a question instead of answering the one given
8:09
[Comment From doc1]
good call vera
8:09
[Comment From TLH728]
i agree doc1
8:09
[Comment From julie cee]
Obama is an empty suit as far as I am personally concerned, but our goal/role here is to be objective as possible.
8:09
[Comment From Jabril]
I will vote for the party that will best help America get out of the mess it is in
8:09
[Comment From Nader for The People]
It's not main stream media making the debates fake, it is the cpd taking control of the debates from the league of women voters - the cpd is run by the dem and repub parties
8:09
[Comment From Kesha Williams]
please can someone tell me how I can get my money right
8:09
[Comment From LaTasha]
obama was up all night too huh>
8:09
[Comment From Kesha Williams]
Pls go and read the house rules
8:10
[Comment From julie cee]
AMEN jabril...
8:10
[Comment From Diane]
uh...haven't things gone on for the last year +? Things have _already_ happened. This last couple weeks before the election is the rest of it.
8:10
[Comment From Patricia]
Remember McCain is old, probably up past his bed time
8:10
[Comment From LaTasha]
Good point Keesha
8:10
[Comment From bporlando]
I tought this debte was about foreign poicy
8:10
[Comment From TLH728]
jeez
8:10
[Comment From doc1]
look we all know people are going to vote party line but the undecided are important
8:10
[Comment From LaTasha]
Jim is a tough cookie.
8:10
[Comment From TLH728]
mccain
8:10
[Comment From Aaron]
Stop clearing your throat John
8:10
[Comment From Stewart]
Jabril.... after all of the policitics over the last year, you haven't figured out which party you think you will vote for? Come on... get real.
8:10
[Comment From Rob]
Where are the other candidates?
8:10
[Comment From Kesha Williams]
oh.. here we go another war story!!
8:10
[Comment From Sarah]
this is a bad night for him
8:10
[Comment From doc1]
i am falling sleep mccain
8:10
[Comment From TLH728]
i do not know anything about eisenhower answer the question
8:10
[Comment From Diane]
lol Patricia
8:11
[Comment From TLH728]
and i have heard this analogy 3 times
8:11
[Comment From Dawn S.]
where is mccain going with this? stay on topic dude!
8:11
[Comment From JYoungest1]
Nader for the People, all the candidates are fake now, they are made of so much plastic its ridiculous. No one needs the money they waste on their campaigns and if you like nader you know
8:11
[Comment From Aaron]
Answer the question!!
8:11
[Comment From Patricia]
Why vote party, instead of voting for the best candidate
8:11
[Comment From Kesha Williams]
how yourself accountable, McCain
8:11
[Comment From Michael]
Stories work good under some circumstances, but McCain looks like he is waisting time.
8:11
[Comment From Sarah]
I got excited for this?
8:11
[Comment From Diane]
Anyway Jabril, your views about this are only _one person's_ views and not the views of the whole. So thanks for your opinion - but no thanks.
8:11
[Comment From doc1]
somebody stab me with this story
8:11
[Comment From Sarah]
This is the first presidential debate I've ever watched
8:11
[Comment From julie cee]
TLH--google it for a history lesson--he preceded all of us!
8:11
[Comment From jake]
so far sooo boring
8:11
[Comment From Rob]
Yea how come Nader isn't here anyway?
8:11
[Comment From Stop]
he can't answer the question
8:11
[Comment From N.S]
They can't answer the question because they don't know what the plan is.
8:11
[Comment From matt]
Chairman of SEC will retire at end of Bush admin. That's an empty threat
8:11
[Comment From Jabril]
Look in the last few days a candidate wanted to suspend his campaign, this shows that neither the candidates are made up on what to do
8:12
[Comment From Dawn S.]
he's not saying anything concrete
8:12
[Comment From Kesha Williams]
tah dah!
8:12
[Comment From 6burkes]
they both are lame so far
8:12
[Comment From LaTasha]
i agree that we should hold the 'fat cats' accountable but hasn't this been going on? Where was he before now?
8:12
[Comment From TLH728]
i know julie cee...
8:12
[Comment From Michael]
Good verbal judo, but then a stumble.
8:12
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
The Chairman of the SEC wasn't chiefly responsible for this. McCain, again, has the right tone--the wise and experienced elder statesman who feels all this in his heart--but he and Obama both need to say specfically what they believe needs to be done.
8:12
[Comment From Nrogara]
McCain seems bored at this on CBS
8:12
[Comment From julie cee]
OBAMA's been smoking too much....he's anorexic...bless his heart
8:12
[Comment From Art Carden]
McCain on Greed: greed is a constant. Did the underlying level of greed change, or was it a change in incentives?
8:12
[Comment From tink]
yep
8:12
[Comment From doc1]
mccain knows about president eisenhwer b/c he was there with him writing the letter
8:12
[Comment From Frank]
They are afraid to answer the question. They both know that they are going to vote for the "bailout" plan. They are uncertain, though, about how the public feels about this payout. So they are deliberately posturing to be tentative.
8:12
[Comment From TLH728]
i dont need to know about eisenhower 3 times already
8:12
[Comment From Sarah]
lol...what's funny?..why are they laughing
8:12
[Comment From Nrogara]
good one doc
8:12
[Comment From Michael]
Nice body shot by Obama on fundementals
8:12
[Comment From Dawn S.]
good point frank.
8:13
[Comment From Art Carden]
"Wages and incomes for ordinary Americans to go down..." comparisons of medians, particularly for households, can be very misleading. In addition, benefits as a percentage of total compensation has increased.
8:13
[Comment From 6burkes]
Obama has not said anything all night
8:13
[Comment From doc1]
good call obama
8:13
[Comment From TLH728]
there is that key word...main street
8:13
[Comment From Michael]
Leher is tough on McCain
8:13
doc1: both senators had time to fix this mess in the senate in the past few years
8:13
[Comment From N.S]
MCcain suspended his campaign and still does not know the details of the plan
8:13
[Comment From Aaron]
Lehrer wants a fight!
8:13
[Comment From matt]
That's right. I need to know that my account (at Wachovia, which is searching for a buyer) will be worth tomorrow what its worth today!
8:13
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
Obama is not being sufficiently aggressive as a debater. He needed to have turned to McCain and said, "Senator, what did you mean when you said the fundamentals of the economy were sound?" And then fold his arms and wait for an answer.
8:13
[Comment From marcina1127]
i don't think mccain has an answer to the first question. he went from "i hope i will support the plan" to "i will support the plan". he should know if he is or is not by now.
8:13
[Comment From Nader for The People]
Again, Nader and other candidates, McKinney, Baldwin, etc are not here bc the CPD is party controlled. Read the League of women voters statement on the '88 takeover of the cpd
8:14
[Comment From tink]
if i hear main street wall street one more time I"m gonna hurl
8:14
[Comment From vera]
try to be bipartisan if possible
8:14
[Comment From Rob]
here watch this it's more exciting a. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5WiE6MnmCM
8:14
[Comment From LaTasha]
good point NS
8:14
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
Yes, Lehrer is being tougher on McCain than Obama is.
8:14
doc1: i was out for a while
8:14
[Comment From TLH728]
are we main street? or are american citizens
8:14
[Comment From Todd in Boise]
then pay them more, McCain
8:14
[Comment From Nrogara]
yea McCain quit Letterman pointed that out 2 nights ago
8:14
[Comment From Stop]
we need a commercial break
8:14
[Comment From Lin]
I thought McCain had a solid idea to help with bailout solution.
8:14
[Comment From vera]
lehr wants dynamics which is great for a debate, not a dialogue
8:14
[Comment From 6burkes]
there are no other candidates tonight, so go away
8:14
Kesha Williams: so true. Even though Obabma voted present at least he was there to know what was going on.. McCain wasn't there. he had to get the notes like he was in college.
8:14
[Comment From Nader for The People]
ALL ballot qualified candidates should be here - no one is harmed by hearing more views
8:14
[Comment From Michael]
Like two little senators can do something about a train about to wreck.
8:14
[Comment From LaTasha]
Nader for the People - can we discuss the candidates on the screen?
8:14
[Comment From julie cee]
i want to hear details, but it may be an unrealistic desire.
8:14
[Comment From Patricia]
McCain suspended his campaign because he was Grantstanding
8:14
[Comment From TLH728]
earmarks..pork belly spending
8:14
Commercial Appeal: Obama vs. McCain is our discussion tonight, please
8:15
[Comment From Stewart]
Yes... spending, spending, spending.... it is out of control and Obama wants even more!!!
8:15
[Comment From Jabril]
If people cannot look at this as a dress rehersal for the white house, then why have a debate. these debates are suppose to be for voters to find out what candidates really know and what they will do. why have them if everyones mind is made up. just go straight to the election.
8:15
[Comment From JYoungest1]
Not big on Mccain but he said that last one well
8:15
[Comment From julie cee]
Nader is not here...can we focus on what we're tasked with, please?
8:15
Kesha Williams: so did it take 8 yrs to find out that the spending was wrong?
8:15
[Comment From Michael]
What about earmarks in Alaska?
8:15
[Comment From matt]
he's used that joke before. kill it
8:15
[Comment From Sarah]
he's got a pen!!!!
8:15
[Comment From TLH728]
they both want to spend more
8:15
[Comment From TLH728]
famous?
8:15
[Comment From N.S]
We heard all of this before.
8:15
[Comment From Nader for The People]
we're tasked with the future of our country, no?
8:16
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
McCain's obsession with earmarks is shortsighted. He rightly notes the incredible expansion of government spending, but the biggest single increase was in fighting the Iraq War. The earmarks he is so fond of denouncing account for only about $80 billion a year.
8:16
[Comment From matt]
Ask him about Palin's earmark requests
8:16
[Comment From Bobbieee]
not just any pen an old one
8:16
[Comment From Art Carden]
McCain is right that we have to get spending under control, but we've heard this before from politicians from both parties for decades. He isn't very clear on the specifics.
8:16
[Comment From Mem]
It didn't take 8 years . They didn't care
8:16
[Comment From doc1]
why did u vote for all the spending in the first place to now veto it
8:16
[Comment From julie cee]
ok...we getting specific amounts.....now--are they accurate?
8:16
[Comment From Michael]
Good Point Michael Huggins Iraq War
8:16
[Comment From Stewart]
Because, Jabril, it is educating the voters.
8:16
[Comment From Frank]
McCain says that he will veto every spending bill that comes across his desk. I wonder, though, if he would veto the "bailout" plan?
8:16
[Comment From Mem]
McCain is a lair.
8:17
[Comment From Stewart]
Question for the group... Have you decided who you are voting for? Just a quick Yes / No
8:17
[Comment From Jabril]
No president will be able to turn this mess we are in, without bi-partisanship. Americans have to work with whoever is elected President
8:17
[Comment From Sarah]
I can't vote!
8:17
[Comment From Dawn S.]
yes
8:17
[Comment From doc1]
good call obama
8:17
[Comment From marcina1127]
hes saying that he is going to stop excessive spending but he is supporting the bailout and at least 8 more years in iraq...
8:17
[Comment From Frank]
Yes.
8:17
[Comment From Guest]
yes
8:17
[Comment From LaTasha]
yes
8:17
[Comment From N.S]
Obama is making a very good point with nice figures.
8:17
[Comment From Patricia]
Frank do you need askm McClain will vote the bailout plan
8:17
[Comment From waqe]
mem, yes, seemingly considerably more than obama.
8:17
[Comment From julie cee]
can anyone validate the 18 million e-marks for 2007?
8:17
[Comment From matt]
I really don't care how much Obama (or anyone) raises taxes for the rich. I'm all for it. Tax the rich, feed the poor.
8:17
[Comment From Patricia]
dittop DOC1
8:17
[Comment From Mem]
Obama
8:17
Kesha Williams: can't have anything stable without a strong foundation or roots
8:17
[Comment From doc1]
sounds good to me lets tax people who make more
8:17
[Comment From Stewart]
yes
8:17
[Comment From Dawn S.]
realistically tho..can we expect a tax cut if we have to pay for this bailout?
8:18
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
Obama still sounds too much like an economics professor discussing pros and cons in front of a class, and less like a warrior for his cause, seeking to defeat an opponent.
8:18
Kesha Williams: from the bottom up
8:18
[Comment From Frank]
Patricia, both of them will vote for the plan.
8:18
[Comment From conventional1]
These are both Senators talking like they are on the outside looking in when they comment on the financial crisis--suggesting they have to be President in order to monitor the greedy execs on Wall street
8:18
[Comment From Mem]
You
8:18
[Comment From TLH728]
oh gosh
8:18
[Comment From Donna]
If McCain uses the word "fundamental" again, I'm going to scream!
8:18
[Comment From Patricia]
mATT you can't really believe that
8:18
[Comment From Mem]
You
8:18
[Comment From matt]
I think a tax cut for most and a raise for the top 2% - 5% is reasonable
8:18
[Comment From Mem]
need
8:18
[Comment From Mem]
ome
8:18
[Comment From Mem]
one
8:18
[Comment From Mem]
who
8:18
[Comment From Mem]
can
8:18
[Comment From Mem]
hink
8:18
[Comment From Mem]
to
8:18
[Comment From Michael]
McCain is making a mistake
8:18
[Comment From Guest]
are yall watching the debate on cnn... they have the audience reaction gauge
8:18
[Comment From Art Carden]
Obama on "growing the economy from the bottom up:" how will tax cuts work without spending cuts?
8:18
[Comment From Mem]
run
8:18
[Comment From Mem]
the
8:18
Kesha Williams: uh oh sheriff= maverick
8:18
[Comment From Stewart]
I didn't see any NO's... sounds like eveyrone her has decided already... and so have most Americans.
8:18
[Comment From 6burkes]
once 51% learn they can screw the other 49% the whole country is doomed
8:18
[Comment From Mem]
country
8:19
[Comment From Mem]
not
8:19
[Comment From Mem]
a
8:19
[Comment From conventional1]
Neither one have any specifics--uh, we have to have reform
8:19
[Comment From matt]
Donna, you'll be hoarse by tomorrow morning
8:19
[Comment From TLH728]
keating 5
8:19
[Comment From Dawn S.]
a republican talking about corruption? thats laughable!
8:19
[Comment From Jabril]
The next president is going to have to reel in the federal reserve, many people don't know that it is a private entity
8:19
[Comment From Samuel (S)]
The "Reaction Gauge" is pretty confusing.
8:19
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
If McCain was called "The Sherriff," he needed to have exercised some of that spirit when dealing with Charles Keating.
8:19
[Comment From marcina1127]
from "maverick" to sherrif"... :-)
8:19
[Comment From N.S]
What is McCain reading from.
8:19
[Comment From Sarah]
that's neat.. audience meter
8:19
[Comment From Michael]
McCain is making a big mistake defending tax cut for wealth
8:19
[Comment From Aaron]
On snap, here we go!
8:19
[Comment From Guest]
hey dont make fun of my reaction gauge. ha, but yes all the colors just blur together.
8:19
[Comment From LaTasha]
that scared me!
8:20
[Comment From sarah]
took him long enough
8:20
[Comment From Donna]
The Kennedy comment McCain made was for sympathy only.
8:20
[Comment From Frank]
Obama JUST became impressive.
8:20
[Comment From Frank]
Obama JUST became impressive.
8:20
[Comment From Art Carden]
We can analyze Obama's health care program using basic supply and demand (giant hint, students). If the price of health care is zero, what happens to quantity demanded and quantity supplied?
8:20
[Comment From sarah]
eye contact!
8:20
[Comment From tink]
go Barak...interrupt and make your point....get tough....he needs to get a bit heated
8:20
Kesha Williams: abra cadabra
8:20
[Comment From Lin]
McCain is using scare tactics to capture voters
8:20
[Comment From Sarah]
what are earmarks? It might be more interesting if I understood what they were talking about.
8:20
[Comment From Aaron]
Obama is going after him. Here we go.
8:20
[Comment From waqe]
let's hear his comments on taxes.. i hope he not say he cutting taxes for everyone.
8:20
[Comment From TLH728]
the health plan will not happen
8:20
[Comment From 6burkes]
productive parts of society do not need the government unlawfully redistributing their work efforts
8:20
[Comment From B-Rob]
This "respond directly to the opponent" nonsense seems more like couples counseling than a debate
8:20
[Comment From Patricia]
McClain looks a little up set
8:21
[Comment From sarah w.]
what ever happened to caring about actual people...
8:21
[Comment From vera]
earmarks are pork (excess spending or special interest spending)
8:21
Kesha Williams: let's hope that his temper doesn't flare...it will turn into one of his tv ads.
8:21
[Comment From Samuel (S)]
Ireland? What happened to China or Taiwan? =D
8:21
[Comment From waqe]
he has twisted the comments on personal taxes, and replying about corporate taxes.
8:21
[Comment From doc1]
here we go again, we r talking about ireland
8:21
[Comment From Patricia]
A Health plan needs to happen
8:21
[Comment From Stop]
Obama needs to snap on McCain about his choice of running mate and her earmarks
8:21
[Comment From Donna]
My thought is that McCain came into the debate behind, (tried to get out of it) so it's all downhill from there for him.
8:21
[Comment From Dawn S.]
mccain i don't want a story...tell me what these business tax cuts are really going to do to stimulate the economy
8:22
[Comment From LaTasha]
I recall mccain mocking obama for taxing corporations... am i alone in that?
8:22
[Comment From conventional1]
dumb comment from McCain on low taxes in Ireland--there aren't plentiful jobs in Ireland or a thriving economy there except for maybe tourism
8:22
6burkes: how can the government pay for your health when only the individual bears responsibility for being unhealthy
8:22
[Comment From Frank]
McCain can help himself, here, by speaking to the issue of the "hurting people."
8:22
[Comment From Aaron]
McCain is already repeating himself.
8:22
[Comment From Samuel (S)]
I want people to have free money, but thats not gonna happen now is it McCain?
8:22
[Comment From TLH728]
the road to nowhere
8:22
[Comment From Art Carden]
We can learn a lot from Ireland. It has been called the "Celtic Tiger" because of its robust economic growth in the last couple of decades, largely as a result of sound economic policies.
8:22
[Comment From Sarah]
I didn't hear anything about Ireland......oh my goodness
8:22
[Comment From doc1]
where does the 5000 will come when u r gining 700bil to corporations
8:22
[Comment From sarah w.]
who cares about a tax credit when you can't get coverage...
8:22
[Comment From Nader for The People]
paulson should reign end of story
8:22
[Comment From waqe]
700B bailout, and he wants every family to have tax cuts...
8:22
[Comment From vera]
How can we afford personal healthcare and gas at the same time?
8:22
[Comment From Jabril]
Greenspan was over the economy from the Reagan era, through George W, he had a lot to do with what is happening in America today. The next President must have control over the federal reserve and how wall street types are able to do business
8:22
[Comment From Guest]
arent earmarks basically a PS. we get more $ for ___ added on a piece of legislation
8:22
[Comment From julie cee]
well said, 6 burkes
8:23
[Comment From tink]
250000 WOW that is a lot of money!!!! do you make that much??????
8:23
[Comment From matt]
250 grand sounds fair to me
8:23
[Comment From Michael]
Nice counter punch by Obama
8:23
[Comment From Samuel (S)]
McCain didn
8:23
Kesha Williams: That is true 6Burkes
8:23
[Comment From TLH728]
im liking that obama is looking at mccain
8:23
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
Obama needs to stop hemming and hawing. If he's this much of a milquetoast debating McCain, I wonder how he'll do if he faces Putin.
8:23
[Comment From Dawn S.]
obama's getting him good now.
8:23
[Comment From tink]
I'll take 150000 thank you!
8:23
[Comment From julie cee]
man...we need gas to drive ourselves TO health care
8:23
[Comment From Squatchmo]
Definition of rich: When you're not sure how many homes you own.
8:23
[Comment From Frank]
Obama is absolutely right concerning the disparity between the business tax rate and the effective tax paid.
8:23
[Comment From Donna]
Can anyone else hear the "education" behind Sen. Obama's comments versus the "off the cuff" comments spilling out of McCain's moutn?
8:23
[Comment From julie cee]
OBAMA was looking off into the wings and mouthing to someone...didja catch it?
8:23
Kesha Williams: There is that temper!!
8:23
[Comment From doc1]
good hit obama
8:24
[Comment From Michael]
If this was a boxing match, McCain would already be in trouble
8:24
[Comment From Art Carden]
On the comment about the President controlling the Fed: that's a really, really bad idea. Central Bank Independence is fundamental to a sound economy over the long run.
8:24
[Comment From vera]
Obama is standing his ground, like it or not!
8:24
[Comment From conventional1]
Ireland is not robust. have you been there? it's a more laid back England
8:24
[Comment From LaTasha]
who is this castellanos on cnn
8:24
[Comment From julie cee]
who besides me is a CPA here and has any clue about tax theory?
8:24
[Comment From Sarah]
oh..my ..goodness.. talking the talk
8:24
[Comment From Patricia]
If all the poor [people leave the US, what would the happen to the rich. There has got to be a happy median
8:24
[Comment From doc1]
why can't have both of them just tell the truth
8:24
[Comment From Nader for The People]
single payer healthcare solves lots
8:24
[Comment From TLH728]
not you mccain
8:24
[Comment From Guest]
no explain julie
8:24
[Comment From Donna]
If this was a boxing match....Sen McCain would already be in the dressing room....done.
8:24
[Comment From Michael]
McCain is swinging wildly
8:24
[Comment From Samuel (S)]
Who?
8:24
[Comment From waqe]
sarah, getting deep in there.
8:24
[Comment From julie cee]
OBAMA has not been there (DC) long enough to GET a record or in the us for that matter.
8:24
[Comment From Rob]
People should go to http://www.opensecrets.org to see how both McCain and Obama are getting tons from Wall Street
8:25
[Comment From TLH728]
nobody in their right mind would want the old tax code
8:25
[Comment From Jabril]
It was this maverick independent free loaning and spending that got America in this mess. There should be rules and regulations in everything
8:25
Kesha Williams: by vote, how many people on here make more than $250,000...
8:25
[Comment From Rob]
Spending on wars -- billions and billions -- and giveaways -- earmarks are tiny
8:25
[Comment From matt]
choose your tax code? that's sounds unnecessarily complicated?
8:25
[Comment From Patricia]
McCain has been there too long
8:25
[Comment From Troy]
Everyone in congress make lots of money on the side
8:25
Kesha Williams: Not me...
8:25
[Comment From Wayne]
looks like Obama is about to lose his cool
8:25
[Comment From Donna]
Rob....stick to the debate issues.
8:25
[Comment From doc1]
mccain is talking about shifting hahahah
8:25
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
McCain has the better speaking style--clear and too the point. "It was festooned with Christmas ornaments. I voted against it; Senator Obama voted for it."
8:25
[Comment From tink]
not us!
8:25
[Comment From fingers]
not me
8:25
[Comment From conventional1]
middle America--yes you decide if you want to be taxed to death or if you want a different tax code--duh
8:25
[Comment From LaTasha]
aaron you may need to add fundamentally to the drinking game?
8:25
[Comment From Michael]
Rob I agree, but after Bush I am looking for the lesser of two evils
8:25
[Comment From julie cee]
Please don't start talking about tax theory (effective/vs business--not even related) if you don't know what you're talking about....that's all I am asking.
8:25
6burkes: obama makes more the 250k
8:25
[Comment From Rob]
McCain is claiming he is raising a fuss of $18 billion in spending he doesn't like -- what about the $700 billion NOW.
8:25
[Comment From guest]
corporate funding is always an issue
8:25
[Comment From Art Carden]
Obama and McCain on Oil Company Profits: what do profits do in a market economy?
8:26
[Comment From alicia]
looks like mccain has to pee!!
8:26
Kesha Williams: in this room 6Burkes
8:26
[Comment From doc1]
mccain can't take a shot he keeps sneering
8:26
[Comment From Patricia]
Alicia LOL
8:26
[Comment From Nicole]
Looks like Mccain is about to cry
8:26
[Comment From otis]
Obama seems to be passionate about the $250.000
8:26
[Comment From Michael]
The referee seperates the two fighters
8:26
Kesha Williams: what I am trying to say is that a majority makes less than $250,000
8:26
[Comment From Troy]
mccain wet his depends
8:26
[Comment From julie cee]
There's ONLY one thing that will fix TAXation for individuals and it will NEVER happen....clean slate/start over.
8:26
[Comment From LaTasha]
the sneer means he's getting angry?
8:26
[Comment From Aaron]
Notice that McCain is not wearing a US Flag pin and Obama is. Where are the attacks on McCain's patriotism??
8:26
6burkes: a majority don't deserve $250
8:27
[Comment From Samuel (S)]
Not to say that the whole financial rescue plan isn't riveting, I am kind of hoping to cover at least one more topic.
8:27
[Comment From Patricia]
McCain is nervous, he tried to backout
8:27
[Comment From Wayne]
If the company I work for pays less taxes, they make more profit and can afford to give me a raise. Makes sense.
8:27
[Comment From Art Carden]
Here's a great economics question from Lehrer: what do you give up for the $700 billion bailout? Excellent question.
8:27
[Comment From fingers]
obama's tie is much better
8:27
[Comment From waqe]
ROB -- nice recommend, will read after debate ends.
8:27
Kesha Williams: never said that they do. Just a fact that they don't
8:27
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
Again, Obama is going to have to stop saying "Well......uh uh uh..." as he launches into his points.
8:27
[Comment From Rob]
Thank you
8:27
[Comment From tink]
McCain has got flag underoos on...no prob
8:27
[Comment From matt]
and NO CLEAN COAL!
8:27
[Comment From Jabril]
He should give up on hoping that Americans will help themselves, it seems as if most of us need to be led by the hand
8:27
[Comment From conventional1]
no wayne it just means that your CEO gets a bigger bonus
8:27
[Comment From alicia]
did you all see the diane sawyer interviews before the debate
8:27
[Comment From otis]
Why does McCain blink so much. Obama seems more relaxed.
8:28
[Comment From Nader for The People]
if we can talk about wearing depends and whose tie is better, I would hope that substantive issues like funding can be discussed
8:28
[Comment From LaTasha]
can someone repeat that web address for both records?
8:28
[Comment From doc1]
i say lets give up some of our 16 homes
8:28
[Comment From Michael]
Wayne, if the give you a raise they don;t have to pay tax on the money, but you do!
8:28
[Comment From julie cee]
we all need flag underoos....LOL...good joke!
8:28
[Comment From Art Carden]
Here's another point that can be analyzed with the theory of comparative advantage: why should we care about whether fuel-efficient cars are made in the US or in Japan?
8:28
[Comment From Nicole]
Blinking is a sign of lying
8:28
[Comment From TLH728]
we need a new deal
8:28
[Comment From fingers]
blinking is a sure sign of lying
8:28
Kesha Williams: Well, I have one house. If I had 6 or more I wouldn't be worried either.
8:28
[Comment From alicia]
or old age. sorry, done with th einsults.
8:28
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
If I recall, Lehrer's question was "What are you willing to give up?" I can't see that that question is being answered.
8:28
[Comment From fingers]
also, he is probably sending morse code
8:28
[Comment From waqe]
obama has great ideas, and with how the republican machine has been and is still running, i am going to give him the shot with my vote.
8:28
6burkes: obama says eliminate programs that dont work... but which ones would he cut?
8:28
[Comment From marcina1127]
i like how obama numbers all of his points when answering a question. that lets you know he has a real plan
8:29
[Comment From Arien]
it's not a matter of where they're made; rather that america does not have them yet
8:29
[Comment From Sarah]
that's silly. blinking is blinking.
8:29
[Comment From Michael]
Blink Blink Blink
8:29
[Comment From Art Carden]
TLH728: why would we need a New Deal? The New Deal made the Depression worse (see Robert Higgs, "Depression, War, and Cold War"
8:29
[Comment From Patricia]
Debaters remember there is an age difference here. Young versus Old. Believe me It Is hard on the old, I know because I am there
8:29
Kesha Williams: That's a great observatioon ^ Burkes
8:29
[Comment From conventional1]
competing hard in a global economy is difficult when our labor is cheaper overseas
8:29
[Comment From Dan Raphael]
A couple of months ago, Obama said "I love the market." Now we see his love child...and it turns out to be Rosemary's Baby! How come we only hear from these two corporate cutouts, and someone who predicted this meltdown--Ralph Nader--is excluded from the debate?
8:29
[Comment From Michael]
McCain is swinging wildly
8:29
[Comment From doc1]
how do we cut spending if we r giving away 700 bill
8:29
[Comment From Frank]
Michael, I agree.
8:29
[Comment From fingers]
Liberal voting record, wowowwowow
8:29
[Comment From alicia]
lol
8:29
[Comment From matt]
I agree with opposition to ethanol subsidies... and most agri-business subsidies
8:29
[Comment From Nicole]
sorry it's not...there is research on signs of lying
8:29
[Comment From Virgil]
so who's winning?
8:29
[Comment From Jabril]
Cut spending good idea, so that means that the military industrial complex needs to be curtailed
8:29
[Comment From julie cee]
M Huggins is the only one of us paying attn....questions aren't being answered...but what's new?
8:29
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
McCain is no better. "No matter what, we've got to cut spending." Very well, the biggest components of spending are Medicare and Social Security. What percentage of those is McCain willing to cut?
8:29
[Comment From vera]
Patricia,
8:29
[Comment From Art Carden]
McCain scores a rhetorical point with "it's hard to reach across the aisle from that far to the left."
8:29
[Comment From Donna]
Blinking does indicate nervousness and lying. Stop blinking so much Sen. McCain.
8:29
[Comment From waqe]
ethanol subsidies one of few things i like about mccain, i heard obama is for the ethanol subsidies, is that true?
8:30
[Comment From vera]
There is a difference in personalities; give them each a fair chance and place yourself in their shoes!
8:30
[Comment From Justin]
they aren't giving away 700 bil they are investing
8:30
[Comment From TLH728]
gosh if you listen to these 2 guys....apparently there are sooooooooooooooooo many subsidies, earmarks, and freebies given to companies and not to the "main street"
8:30
[Comment From tim]
How is John going cut spending when he refuses rolling back wealthy and oil tax breaks
8:30
[Comment From Rob]
McCain wants to cut the military budget? Now he DOES sound like Nader.
8:30
Kesha Williams: it is in the character of politians to avoid questions
8:30
[Comment From Samuel (S)]
Intresting thing to read: http://www.learnbodylanguage.org/body_language_lying.html Body language is always fun... Look how thin McCains Lips Are?! GASP!
8:30
[Comment From doc1]
investing on what justin
8:30
[Comment From conventional1]
McCain is right--ethanol is a loser. drives the price of corn up and the owners can't even buy corn to fuel the plant. it's stupid
8:30
[Comment From julie cee]
The programs in the NEW DEAL were never meant to last....but both houses of Congress have perpetuated it...to where we are today.
8:30
[Comment From otis]
I am upset that McCain did not want to come. He should be able to do two things at once.
8:30
[Comment From Art Carden]
Econ 101 students: we haven't gotten to this in class yet, but how will government subsidies to ethanol producers affect the supply curve for ethanol?
8:30
[Comment From Aaron]
Piss off those Boeing employees
8:30
[Comment From doc1]
stock market
8:30
[Comment From Michael]
I'm glad I'm not in their shoes
8:30
[Comment From Nader for The People]
yes, obama is for ethanol
8:30
6burkes: change what!
8:31
[Comment From JS]
Corporations don't pay tax...they have to make a profit so they have to pass that cost along to the consumers so we are paying the corporate taxes and our income taxes and our sales taxes and our property taxes and so on and so on!!!!
8:31
[Comment From julie cee]
GO JIM GO...JL nailed the jello to the wall.
8:31
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
McCain is correct about the shortsightedness of ethanol spending. He needs to elaborate on that. Still, he keeps misrepresenting the entire situation as a criminal conspiracy among wastrels, with himself as the prosecutor. That is drama, not a solution.
8:31
[Comment From Donna]
I don't care for Lehrer....never has.
8:31
[Comment From Justin]
doc: the "toxix assets" are still assets. they can't move in the market but that doesn't mean they are all bad.
8:31
Kesha Williams: Need? How do you piece apart a plan?
8:31
[Comment From fingers]
This isn't a debate. I want to see them go at it
8:31
6burkes: they both are just trying to not lose their current supporters, but are not saying anything really at all
8:31
[Comment From Nader for The People]
"neither one of you is suggesting any major changes!!" you heard the man
8:31
[Comment From Art Carden]
And here's another thing that can be analyzed with supply and demand. What do ethanol subsidies do to the demand for corn? Therefore, what happens to the price of corn? And what happens to the price of soybeans as a result?
8:31
[Comment From waqe]
Nadar, thats one thing i dislike about him. being for ethanol. &-:
8:31
[Comment From julie cee]
Is it safe to extrapolate that McCain's against subsidies PERIOD...and ethanol happened to be at hand?
8:31
[Comment From Nader for The People]
nader is not for ethanol
8:31
Kesha Williams: CaN i just gey gas prices like in 2000? .75 a gallon
8:31
[Comment From Sarah]
Tom..lol
8:31
[Comment From conventional1]
I was mad at first thinking McCain was going to backup but the bailout they tried to push through was a dog--he did the right thing
8:32
[Comment From julie cee]
NADER not NADAR
8:32
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
Obama needs to learn to pronounce "insurors," just as Bush needs to learn to pronounce "terrorists."
8:32
[Comment From waqe]
as pres what will you give up in terms of spending -- the iraq war........
8:32
[Comment From Arien]
well corn prices would spike
8:32
[Comment From Justin]
doc: the reason they won't trade is because no one knows what the default rate is. overall it hasn't been that bad. citizens will realize most if not all of that 700 bil back
8:32
[Comment From TLH728]
obama has been using up alll of his minutes
8:32
[Comment From Banana]
he's for solar energy not ethanol
8:32
[Comment From Arien]
but then again at least we can grow corn on home soil
8:32
[Comment From Donna]
Bush's long headed policies.....I love it!!!!!
8:32
[Comment From Patricia]
What is wrong wtih being for ethanol, cheaper
8:32
[Comment From fingers]
McCain needs to avoid talking about jail....he should have been in one for Keating 5
8:32
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
McCain is cleverly countering his well known reputation for irascibility by standing and smiling quietly as Obama makes his points.
8:32
Kesha Williams: Ethanol is $2.89 in MD right now
8:32
[Comment From Banana]
ethanol is completely inefficient
8:32
[Comment From N.S]
Why does he keep going with this question.
8:33
[Comment From Banana]
we can use wind and the sun
8:33
[Comment From Donna]
Maybe Jim Lehrer should have ran for President.
8:33
[Comment From JS]
might be 2.89 but you only get 1/2 the gas milage out of it
8:33
[Comment From Samuel (S)]
Google would probably invest in "Google For Goverment" ??? They would make a beautifle GUI and in between spending they could have ads for "Money Management Help"
8:33
[Comment From Art Carden]
Here's another question that can be analyzed using comparative advantage: should we care whether we grow corn domestically (Google "Iowa Car Crop" for more information).
8:33
[Comment From Dawn S.]
spending freeze sounds like a last ditch effort.
8:33
[Comment From LaTasha]
spending freeze will be very bad
8:33
[Comment From julie cee]
we cannot produce ENOUGH corn to make ethanol viable....in compatability with other products currently based on corn crops.
8:33
[Comment From Michael]
Nice finesse by Obama
8:33
[Comment From fingers]
early child hood education....YAH!
8:33
[Comment From matt]
McCain would'nt pass the GI Bill! What does he care about Vets affairs?
8:33
[Comment From Frank]
"You're using a hatchet where you need a scapel." That's the statement of the night, so far.
8:33
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
Lehrer represents a frustrated public, wishing that the candidates would give straight, specific answers.
8:33
[Comment From Guest]
Typical democrat... can't just freeze spending
8:33
Kesha Williams: but what about us who don't have vehicles that can use it. So I have to get more debt ( new car pymt)so I can get a compatible fuel
8:33
[Comment From Donna]
If you don't look at the tv when McCain is speaking, he sounds just like Bush.
8:33
[Comment From Ali]
Neither of the two candidates care about the American people. Obama spits on the fact that he is half white and McCain has supported Bush for the past eight years. Nader has my vote on November 4th and anyone who cares about this country please do the same. Nader ‘08
8:33
[Comment From conventional1]
if we get out of Iraq we would have some money
8:34
[Comment From Samuel (S)]
Wind-tied Solar Natural Gas? Wow...
8:34
[Comment From Dawn S.]
alternative fuel shou;d have been dealt with 30 years ago...too little too late.
8:34
[Comment From Sarah]
hello...McCain was the one who brought up the freeze
8:34
[Comment From fingers]
DRINK....terrorist
8:34
[Comment From alicia]
how ignorant.
8:34
6burkes: Iraq should pay the US treasury back for the war
8:34
[Comment From Art Carden]
McCain: "we're sending $700 billion overseas..." here's another question about international trade: what is being sent back?
8:34
[Comment From Nicole]
lol he does sound like bush!!!
8:34
[Comment From LaTasha]
good point dawn -
8:34
[Comment From conventional1]
we do need nuclear--it's all over Europe
8:34
[Comment From Rob]
Nuclear energy? We need renewable energy!
8:34
[Comment From Patricia]
Please, Nadar has spent his political life being a spoiler
8:34
[Comment From Sarah]
are there commercial breaks?
8:34
[Comment From matt]
Nukes are necessary, but as few as possible
8:34
[Comment From julie cee]
DEMS just let ban on off shore drilling lapse.....cannot one of them REMEMBER THIS....it just happened this week....
8:34
[Comment From Nader for The People]
they both support nuclear
8:34
[Comment From fingers]
freeze spending you cut your nose off to spite your face
8:34
[Comment From Michael]
If you live in Tennesse it doesn't matter wgo you vote for; McCain has a big lead.
8:34
[Comment From Rob]
Solar energy is all over Europe
8:35
[Comment From Frank]
Here's the score: McCain 0; Obama 0; Lehrer 4
8:35
[Comment From Guest]
Mccain is talking about helping veterans but he has consistently voted against veteran benefits
8:35
[Comment From otis]
Why are they skirting around the question?
8:35
[Comment From SueP]
We already had research on high-lipid algae as a biomass source twenty-five years ago...Reagan killed the research. FYI
8:35
[Comment From Nader for The People]
every candidate spoils for every other one.
8:35
[Comment From conventional1]
we should be driving eleectric cars, investing in solar and wind energy
8:35
[Comment From Michael]
Europe isn't run by oil companies
8:35
[Comment From alicia]
frank add McCains hair: -1
8:35
Kesha Williams: what about the veteran that are one Beale begging for money?
8:35
[Comment From julie cee]
I don't like the freewheeling use of eventually.
8:35
[Comment From vera]
I think Lehr is beating a dead horse. The abvious answer is yes. The economical situation will effect EVERYTHING!
8:35
[Comment From Dawn S.]
of course it will...this finacial thing has changed the playing field forever.
8:35
[Comment From Patricia]
If you live in Tennesee it does matter who you vote for.
8:35
[Comment From Rob]
This is why the debates need third party candidates, to force them to answer to the issues!
8:35
[Comment From Art Carden]
Lehrer: "the way you rule the country as President of the United States..." I'm sure this was a slip, but when did this become a monarchy? In what sense should the President "rule?"
8:35
[Comment From LaTasha]
why hasn't mccain done more to create ways to utilize alt energy before this new green rage
8:35
[Comment From Nicole]
Michael same for Florida....but you never now how it will all pan out on election day
8:36
[Comment From julie cee]
Nuclear energy will supplant electric car resource needs....or am I off base?
8:36
6burkes: I doubt those are real veterans, and the few who are, were messed up before hand
8:36
[Comment From Michael]
Nice move by Obama
8:36
[Comment From Robbie]
McCain wants to cut spending but raise defense spending
8:36
[Comment From vera]
Mccain i
8:36
[Comment From vera]
s
8:36
Kesha Williams: how so 6Burkes?
8:36
[Comment From vera]
mccain
8:36
[Comment From vera]
s
8:36
[Comment From Troy]
Time to make the iraqis to pay us back
8:36
[Comment From JS]
We should use our own oil for the next 10 years while alternatives are implimented. It can't happen over night.
8:36
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
Obama may have outstanding strategists in David Plouffe and David Axelrod, but if he doesn't get a good debate coach, he is headed, not for the Presidency of the United States, but for the Presidency of the Socratic Union at Oxford. I'm just glad he wasn't the prosecutor in LA in 1970, or Charles Manson might have gone free.
8:36
[Comment From LaTasha]
seems to me that if he's BEEN for it, he could have done more before 2008
8:36
[Comment From julie cee]
SCREECH....from energy to Healthcare with no seque?????
8:36
[Comment From vera]
mccain is too rich to understand what healthcare plans mean
8:36
[Comment From otis]
I am from Milwaukee and I wanted to know other views. What do you think of this debate?
8:36
[Comment From Frank]
Obama wins were "moves" are concerned; but neither one has answered the questions.
8:36
[Comment From Art Carden]
How is health care "crushing on people all over the country?" Sure, it's expensive, but it is technologically advanced and progressive.
8:36
[Comment From doc1]
why noy, we r giving everything else to the federal gov why not the healthcare
8:37
[Comment From waqe]
onion headline the other day: "Diebold accidentely (sp) leaks 2008 election results..."
8:37
[Comment From julie cee]
SO enuff he said/he said....tell me what you're gonna do..PLEASE
8:37
[Comment From N.S]
What do you all think about the audience reaction on CNN.
8:37
[Comment From Sarah]
What else is on?
8:37
[Comment From conventional1]
bad comment on medical by McCain--let families decide. who? families that don't have healcare, moron?
8:37
[Comment From matt]
Privatizing healthcare will only increase costs as healthcare companies look for more profit and fewer payouts. awful ide3a
8:37
6burkes: "veterans" come from the population, some enlist with preexisting problems, so when they get out, they are still problematic
8:37
[Comment From Robbie]
Obama has most closely answered the questions
8:37
[Comment From fingers]
NO NEW TAXES! sound familar
8:37
[Comment From Michael]
McCain hammering away and unless Obama answers then round goes to McCain
8:37
Kesha Williams: oh ok. Thanks for elaborating.
8:37
[Comment From Stop]
have you ever tried to purchase private health care insurance?
8:37
[Comment From Nader for The People]
most industrialized countries have single payer healthcare
8:37
[Comment From Stop]
health care is mutha
8:37
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
A spending freeze is too blunt an instrument. For one thing, we need to spend *more* on our badly outdated infrastructure.
8:37
[Comment From JS]
How about NO taxes. Sales tax only!
8:37
6burkes: Fair tax
8:37
Kesha Williams: For a single healthy 25 yr old insurance is $230 a month
8:37
[Comment From Rob]
We should have single payer healthcare for all Americans
8:38
[Comment From waqe]
but he will not name one of them that he would cut...
8:38
[Comment From Mem]
He has fought agains spending but it is out of control
8:38
[Comment From Michael]
Nice counter by Obama
8:38
[Comment From Sarah]
ORGY of spending
8:38
[Comment From Donna]
If McCain have fought against excessive spending all of his life, why does he have so many homes across the world?
8:38
[Comment From vera]
its interesting that mccain has 90% of the time voted for Bush and now he wants to be the lone rager
8:38
[Comment From N.S]
Why is McCain a republican his party is the one that is doing the spending.
8:38
[Comment From Michael Huggins]
McCain is like someone who talks of taming a werewolf by trimming the creature's nails.
8:38
[Comment From otis]
What about education? healthy children? housing market? I want to sell my house and I was told that it is 35% less. What are we going to do to make headway?
8:38
[Comment From SueP]
McCain creepy smile, when did he get so creepy?
8:38
[Comment From conventional1]
yeah our bridges are crumbling and roads falling apart
8:38
Commercial Appeal: domestic issues are next debate otis
8:38
[Comment From Rob]
We need to take this country in a new direction.
8:38
[Comment From N.S]
Another line we have heard
8:38
[Comment From Donna]
McXain
8:38
[Comment From alicia]
orgy... "hard to swallow" man obama keep it pg
8:38
[Comment From Nicole]
nicely said Obama!
8:38
Kesha Williams: uh oh.. here we go again. ANOTHER WAR STORY FROM THE MAVERICK
8:38
[Comment From LaTasha]
McCain smile means his temper is boiling
8:38
[Comment From Michael]
Obama needs to defens his own record
8:39
[Comment From Donna]
McCain
8:39
[Comment From Sarah]
when is the next debate?
8:39
[Comment From JS]
how many rebublicans can say they have ONLY voted with Bush 90%
8:39
[Comment From vera]
mccain keeps focusing on his "maverick" style, yet his vote does not align with his banter
8:39
[Comment From Sarah]
ooooh Vietnam
8:39
[Comment From Robbie]
McCain is just answering with attempting to draw attention to his record, but his record isn't the issue
8:39
[Comment From Nicole]
Lol kesha
8:39
[Comment From Mem]
McCain has voted with bush 95%
8:39
[Comment From Michael]
Round even
8:39
[Comment From fingers]
MAVERICK...drink
8:39
[Comment From Donna]
McCain
8:39
[Comment From Art Carden]
The problem with the "health insurance" debate is that what is being described as insurance isn't actually insurance: it's third-party subsidized consumption.
8:39
Kesha Williams: nice plug for your VP, McCain...not
8:39
[Comment From vera]
thanks Mem
8:39
[Comment From julie cee]
Remember, John McCain has health impairments from serving and protecting...I think he probably understands healthcare issues better (in the big picture) than any of us young'uns do....and he DOES have a history of doing what is right, rather than what is popular. Perhaps Obama would have same record if he were not in his infancy as a public servant.
8:39
[Comment From Rob]
Obama has voted with Bush and the Republicans more times than not
8:39
[Comment From Donna]
McCain
The critics [of the Paulson plan] can be roughly divided into two camps. One group thinks money should be directly infused into banks, which should allow it to trickle down through the financial system to borrowers. A second group thinks the government should buy individual mortgages, thus helping ordinary Americans more directly, with the benefits trickling up to the banks.
Actually there's a third camp: those of us who think that the government should not be taking the money from taxpayers in the first place. Instead it should let private market participants recapitalize banks (as Mitsubishi Bank just did for Morgan Stanley) and buy distressed assets, at prices set in actual genuine market transactions, to the extent that those risking their own money think warranted. As we discovered in the savings and loan fiasco of the 1980s, and as Japan discovered in the 1990s, propping up insolvent financial firms so they keep operating only makes survival more difficult for healthy firms.
You've got to love bureaucracy, if only for the laughs. Libertarians like to mock government bureaucracy, but private bureaucracy can be just as intransigent and mind-numbing. The key thing about bureaucracy is that it always rolls on, a big, inpersonal machine that grinds all before it. And bureaucrats do what they are tasked to do, regardless of the circumstances.
Here, for example, is the last press release from Washington Mutual, issued September 24, as the company teetered on bankruptcy, one day before the buy-out by JP Morgan - Chase:
WaMu Recognized as Top Diverse Employer—Again
Company ranks in top ten of Hispanic Business’ Diversity Elite and earns perfect score on the Human Rights Campaign’s Corporate Equality Index
SEATTLE, WA (September 24, 2008) – Washington Mutual, Inc. (NYSE:WM), one of the nation’s leading banks for consumers and small businesses, has once again been recognized as a top employer by Hispanic Business magazine and the Human Rights Campaign.
Hispanic Business magazine recently ranked WaMu sixth in its annual Diversity Elite list, which names the top 60 companies for Hispanics. The company was honored specifically for its efforts to recruit Hispanic employees, reach out to Hispanic consumers and support Hispanic communities and organizations.
The Human Rights Campaign, the largest national gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (GLBT) civil rights organization, also awarded WaMu its second consecutive 100 percent score in the organization’s 2009 Corporate Equality Index (CEI), which measures progress in attaining equal rights for GLBT employees and consumers. WaMu joins the ranks of 259 other major U.S. businesses that also received top marks in the annual survey. The CEI rated a total of 583 businesses on GLBT-related policies and practices, including non-discrimination policies and domestic partner benefits.
In both surveys, WaMu earned points for competitive diversity policies and programs, including the recently established Latino, African American and GLBT employee network groups, all of which have a corporate executive sponsor and champion.
“Diversity is an integral part of cultivating a welcoming, innovative and dynamic workplace here at WaMu. We are proud to be recognized for the opportunities and benefits we offer to all of our employees, including the specific efforts we have made to engage Hispanics and the GLBT community,” said Steve Rotella, WaMu president and COO. “We are committed to diversity at WaMu and pledge to listen to our customers and work closely with our employees to continue to make progress.”
You can't make this stuff up.
The full release is here. Hat tip to Mark Krikorian at The Corner .
There is no panic on Main Street and in sound financial institutions. The problems are in high-risk financial institutions and on Wall Street. ...
The primary beneficiaries of the proposed rescue are Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley. ... Treasury is totally dominated by Wall St. investment bankers. They do not have knowledge of the commercial banking industry. Therefore they cannot be relied on to objectively assess all the implications of government policy on all financial intermediaries. The decision to protect the money funds is a clear example of a material lack of insight into the risk to the entire financial system.
Allison offers his comments in 14 numbered points. 13.5 of them are spot-on. The second half of comment six is only one I'd quarrel with.
...Shannon and I are about to get on the road again. We're headed to Birmingham, where I'll be presenting a paper about Wal-Mart and obesity at UAB on Friday and talking about price-gouging at Birmingham-Southern on Monday. Speaking of which, the Commercial Appeal printed a few letters in response to my article on price gouging and gas prices. In between, we'll be visiting family. On Saturday night, Jacob and I are going to my Dad's house to watch the Bama-Georgia game.
On Friday night, I'll be live-blogging the Presidential debate for the Commercial Appeal from my in-laws' living room. Please feel free to join the discussion.
Next week: Wal-Mart at West Virginia. The following week: corruption and entrepreneurship at Auburn. Then Samford. Then the MVEA meetings in Saint Louis. Then Liberty Fund. Then UA-Little Rock and Central Arkansas. Then Ole Miss. Then...I don't know what. Thanksgiving?
A rich New Yorker may have a swimming pool in his yacht, as one of them has planned; he may have a marble bathtub, though porcelain-laid tubs do very well for ninety-nine out of every hundred; he may bathe in cow's milk, goat's milk, or white asses' milk, as the books say some Romans did, but he may not have two doors to his bath room if it is in an apartment house in New York City...
The Tenement House Department has adopted a rule that no bath room shall have more than one door. And so the plans of the west side man for his bathrooms had to be changed.
"Two doors in a bath room," explained Commissioner Butler yesterday, "makes for the accidental collision of persons in the bathroom. It is so easy to forget about locking the door through which you did not come. There doesn't seem to be any good reason why the rule shouldn't be general. I don't know why anybody should want two doors in a bathroom."
Indeed, I am sure Mr. Butler didn't have a clue as to why someone would want two doors to a bathroom. Thus, as is too often the case with the "benevolent social planner," Commissioner Butler's preferences ruled supreme. Yet, did Mr. Butler's lack of knowledge and/or understanding of other people's preferences improve efficiency and social welfare? Hmmm.....
Quote of the day:
"Wall Street loves money but hates free markets, because free markets distribute economic benefits to those who earn them, rather than to those best able to seize them."
Chairman Bernanke's reply (begins at 4:59 of the clip) is notable in several respects.
(1) He agrees that the price-fixing of the New Deal's NRA and AAA harmed economic recovery, and states that a consensus of economic historians thinks likewise. Good to hear!
(2) He denies that the Paulson plan involves similar price-fixing. He claims that the feds will use "market-based" methods to determine the prices of the distressed assets they buy. But how can this be consistent with his thinking that the market for these assets is currently on the fritz? He mentions auctions as one market-based method, but (again) doesn't explain how he imagines having an auction with only one buyer. Does Bernanke favor a real market approach, or a market-socialist approach a la Oskar Lange? As Felix Salmon rightly asks: instead of pondering auction design, how about considering a real market?
(3) He perpetuates the myths that Hoover's Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon was a liquidationist, and that the Fed in 1929-32 was following Mellon's supposed advice.
Howdy. I grow apples in the Northwest. A few years ago I took advantage of low interest rates and federal farm-loan subsidies to borrow money to clear land and plant apple trees. Trouble is, so did lots of other apple-growers. Now we have so many apple trees out here producing fruit that the price of apples is depressed, and so is the price of my new orchard. I’m not making enough selling my apple crop to cover my loan payments, and I can’t sell my orchard for a high enough price to pay off the loan.
In retrospect, I obviously made a mistake planting those trees. Now what? Until last week I thought my only two options were: I bear the loss and keep up the loan payments somehow, or my lender bears the loss by renegotiating the loan or having it written down for him when I declare bankruptcy. While I’m debating which one of those to choose, and I might go bankrupt, nobody will refinance my other debts at low rates. (Meanwhile my Uncle Freddie, who lent me the money, made a bunch of other bad orchard loans. He made an even bigger mistake than mine. I heard that he's in bankruptcy court now.)
My neighbors Ben and Hank, however, have a third option. They have a different way of looking at the problem. They think the reason that nobody will offer a good enough price for my orchard (and other orchards like it) is that the usual orchard buyers are just temporarily spooked. They think it will pass. They think the three of us should pool our money, set up a new fund, and use it to buy my and other distressed orchards at better than the going price. With the orchard off my own books, they say I can more easily meet the payments on my other loans, and I’ll be able to get new loans. Later our fund will sell the orchards off for what they’re really worth.
Now, I think they’re being foolish. What with all the overplanted trees out there, the apple business and the price of orchards are going to remain depressed for a long while. Barring some unforeseen event that boosts demand for apples, prices will remain depressed until finally enough apple trees have died off to reduce the crop to where it ought to be. I’d be a fool to put any of my own good money into the fund they’re proposing.
But hey, if Ben and Hank can convince some even bigger fool to pay a good price for the orchard I shouldn’t have planted, I’ll cash the check.
I think Richard Epstein's is the best brief summary of the general perception of the current mess:
[O]ur bipartisan consensus is holding true to form. In a system that is chock-full of heavy regulation, they instantly blame the current collapse on the excesses of the free market, for which a still heavier dose of regulation supplies some supposed cure.
I should have read Mike's piece more carefully before making the statement above. His concluding statement, even shorter, complements Epstein: "Things aren't so bad that a panicked bunch of politicians can't make it much, much worse."
Unbelievably funny video off of an Aussie senator discussing an oil spill. I'm told this is true [Update: but it's not], but it seems like an Abbott and Costello routine. Thanks to Pete for the pointer.
More from the "there are no new problems, only our problems" drawer, the Sept. 23, 1908 NYT reports:
"Europeans believe that the world panic of last Autumn was caused by our banking system; that there is no assurance against a recurrence of the trouble until the banking system is reformed. And I agree with Europeans," remarked Jame B. Forgan, President of the First National Bank, upon his return from a trip abroad today. He continued:
"Over there in Europe, when a monetary scare occurs and spreads, there is at once a unanimity of action among bankers. Money begins to flow to the country's financial centre. The Bank of England, for instance, raises its discount rate; it gets gold from everywhere; the monetary resources of the country are laid under contribution for the benefit of the big bank or banks. The people are then shown the strong position of the large institution or institutions, and are calmed thereby.
"Here in the United States we are the victims of a process the direct reverse of that obtaining abroad. when apprehension seizes the Nation our one or two big piles of cash are pounced upon by a myriad of little bankers throughout the country, who make hundreds of piles of them, and who, after getting the money, do nothing but stare at it, having really no use for it.
"In the meanwhile, the cash means of the financial centres are more or less depleted. Their reserves inevitably sink below the 25 per cent limit demanded by the banking law. The newspapers herald this fact, call attention to it, and the panic is emphasized. The people think that the big banks haven't much cash, and wildly conclude that if the important banker is in that condition, what must be the position of the little fellow, not knowing, not understanding, that the crisis has been brought about by the very fact that small bankers want to build little piles of money to look at.
"I haven't the time or the inclination at present to go into the remedial phase of the question - I'm not proposing a central bank, mind you - but I know we cannot go on in the old way with any sort of safety.
"I could not reply to the censure of Europeans simply because I knew that their strictures were fully deserved. i sat there and took it all as a representative of a faulty system must."
Well, it only took 100 years but it would seem that we have come full circle. One wonders whether the reform Mr. Forgan had in mind would have made it harder for his bank to make money. I wager not.
I am not a monetary historian or monetary economist, we have other contributors who fill that role, but from this economist's perspective the crisis of today seems to have been born from the pragmatic politics of the past (whether the pragmatic politics centered on "affordable housing" or blocking "reform" of the quasi-government moral hazard centers).
From Mike Munger, a Duke University professor of economics and political science, and the Libertarian candidate for governor.
“The state is the great fiction by which each of us seeks to live at the expense of all of us.” The 19th French economist Frederic Bastiat recognized something that seems to be eluding our wise men in Washington, and Wall Street.
If Bastiat were alive, I can guess his reaction to the bailout: First, we don't know what we are doing, and we are as likely to do harm as help. The desperate hurry comes from electoral politics, and not from any real economic necessity.
Second, we aren't creating value. Government can't create value in financial markets. All we are doing is shifting costs from one group (Wall Street bankers, and mortgage sellers who took enormous and unsupportable risks) and transferring them to another group (taxpayers, who don't know any better).
When you hear someone say “The government bailout of Wall Street,” make a mental substitution: “The taxpayer-funded bailout of Wall Street.” And then remember that we have a federal debt bigger than Jupiter.
Deficits are future taxes. The bailout is simply a way of allowing irresponsible lenders to escape unharmed. If you have a mortgage, and can't pay, then you are responsible. If AIG has debts and can't pay, our leaders want to soak taxpayers for the bill.
The point is that you can't take money away from taxpayers who earned it, give it to the financiers who squandered it, and call that a good policy. There is no danger of another Depression, which was caused by a deflationary monetary policy. We are facing a temporary credit crunch, and it will sort itself out if we leave it alone. Things aren't so bad that a panicked bunch of politicians can't make it much, much worse.
Each can't live at the expense of all. Not even if you are a rich banker.
When he sees the luxurious residence or the charming country house of a wealthy person, a poor workingman often asks himself: "Why is there such inequality in the world?"
How many volumes have been written about equality among men! How much blood has been spilled for this idea! And yet, in spite of it all, we still have the rich and the poor...
Let us imagine that one day all the inhabitants of the world would assemble to put into effect this sharing of all goods; and that in fact each person, granted that the world is very big, received an exactly equal portion of the wealth existing on earth.
Then what? That very evening one man might say, "Today I worked hard: now I am going to take rest." Another might state, "I understand this sharing of goods well; so let's drink and celebrate such an extraordinary happening." On the other hand, another might say, "Now I am going to set to work with a will so as to reap the greatest benefit I can from what I have received." And so, starting on the next day, the first man would have only the amount given him; the second would have less, and the third would have increased his.
Then what do we do? Start redistributing the wealth all over again?
Even if everybody began to work right away with all his might and at the same time, the results would not be identical for all. There are, in